20:02:38 many different things that he's been doing. and I I really want. I came to talk to our folks, and and they are going through through the agile and setting up community as I just said, hijile and scale value of project management
20:03:01 is a community of project managers, bringing all at least 20 to bring.
20:03:07 Agile as a mindset, not just prescriptive. Few frameworks into our community, which is project management.
20:03:14 By the way, we have great folks here. Thank you very much. all for joining us, and, appreciate everybody specifically.
20:03:23 Have Nick, stop it. Alright, Yeah, thank you for the introduction there to Acpm.
20:03:31 David, i'm really excited about this presentation and I would love to give a little bit of a overview of what the talk will be on so first time.
20:03:44 I would also want to extend the gesture, gratitude to our sponsoring, organization and scale value project management.
20:03:50 Thank you so much, David, for that introduction. So just to let our audience know we will allow for some time at the end of the talk today for our Q and a session.
20:04:04 So feel free to inject your questions into chat over the course of the presentation, and we'll get to them at the end, or, better yet, save them up.
20:04:12 And you're encouraged to turn on your video and ask all directly.
20:04:15 So today we have the great privilege to have al Shalloway With this we'll talk about his basic lean actual solutions.
20:04:23 Team. Aka, blast a very explosive acronym.
20:04:26 There. I love it. How's going to cover the dozen points of his blast approach, and i'm really looking forward to hearing more about.
20:04:36 He's here to talk about the challenges of ging agility across multiple teams, and how we can expect a shirt.
20:04:41 Success of being atile at small scale by simply understanding and putting into practice important concept.
20:04:49 Be on the lookout for key. takeaways you can glean from today's call, including issues on team alignment.
20:04:54 And why alignment is more effective than coordination.
20:04:58 How do you use Mbis rather than just in Vpns?
20:05:03 My minimum business increments, how you can use value strings to improve your workflow, whereas now i'd like to call them value workflows.
20:05:12 So without further ado i'd like to introduce al Shalloway I'll show always the founder and CEO success engineering.
20:05:19 How's the recognized thought leader, in multiple areas, such as lean, safe, con bond scrum design at tdd main management value creation networks, Lane Park management and is the creator of complex system which is the heart
20:05:37 is the discipline agile value stream consultant workshop.
20:05:43 The first agile at scale approach that's truly based on lean and flow thinking. he's got written 5 books ranging from design patterns to agile at scale. you know the master's degree in electrical engineering and another
20:05:56 master's degree in computer science and mathematics from Okay, National Speaker and former Spc trainer to save. he currently focuses on providing agile at scale
20:06:08 J. Market organizations, including helping internal change agents, be self-sufficient, and training their teams in a conference.
20:06:15 So out we welcome you. we're very grateful for you presenting here today my pleasure to turn that over to you out and tell us all about basically natural solutions.
20:06:24 Team. Thanks for having me just to verify you can all seem my screen.
20:06:29 Is that right? Okay. Good. I have a theme t-shirt, which is why i'm wearing a t-shirt.
20:06:34 This is like a lot of the message today, everybody's heard the insanity.
20:06:39 Quote what I like on the back is It says I used to be in saying, Now i'm different.
20:06:44 I think we have to be different in this industry and this is i'm real excited about this. talk because it's gonna be more than just this.
20:06:56 This is what I said I talk about, and I am back in 2,007.
20:07:00 I I was at a client where there were good scrum teams, but they couldn't coordinate well, it wasn't that big of a problem, and I use well at the time i'm not even sure I was using all of
20:07:11 flow and theory of constraints. I was mostly in to lean at that time.
20:07:15 But when I look at it, I was using theories from all 3 to provide 2 options that i'm going to go over and realize later that a multi-team solution was created I thought of it as a special case because I do that a lot I
20:07:28 make up practices all the time based on theory and that's part of the message.
20:07:32 But this talk is more blast. as an example of what approach we should take, So do we take a minimalistic approach based on values and principles of its Creator.
20:07:43 Yeah, I'm: talking about scrum Do we make a collection of practices like safe approaches.
20:07:49 Or do we come from a combination of first principles and practices within a well-defined context, So we can see what we need to do for our situation.
20:07:57 While not having to reinvent the Wheel people seem to ignore this third option as possible.
20:08:03 It's like Well, you got to do that framework you got to do this framework.
20:08:05 You've got to reinvent everything and that's just not true.
20:08:08 There are other approaches that are very well defined mine's not alone.
20:08:12 That's what i'm going to talk about I Saw Steve Tennessee on here with tame Flow highly recommend his work in his book.
20:08:19 There are lots of things out there that are not frameworks that in my mind.
20:08:23 Get around the challenges. Frameworks have inherently
20:08:28 So the other thing I realized and perhaps this won't be shown in this time, but sometimes it's not just are you effective or not.
20:08:37 It's can you. align around things I have this thing I call the amplio community of practice, and one of the exercises we did in it was to look at the challenges people, had and part of my ideas I was going to show them
20:08:50 how to overcome the challenges. and I have to admit when I looked at what people had about. half of them didn't fit my normal way of doing things, You know it wasn't like people were violating a principle and all I
20:09:01 have to show them. Hey, do this instead. what it was was people weren't the line.
20:09:05 There was no common ground between managers and developers and things.
20:09:08 So I think this alignment issue is very important and actually i'm going to talk about how this approach helps alignment as well. Okay, So here's the here's the issue.
20:09:18 So I was at a client. They had about if I recollect about 150.
20:09:24 It wasn't that big but this was back in 2,007, and they told me that they were doing all these things, and, and, to be candid, I normally don't believe it when a client tells me they're doing all these
20:09:34 things right, i'm nice I don't tell them I don't believe you.
20:09:37 But in this case I actually did believe it, and the reason I believe them is because Jeff Sutherland, one of the co-creators of scrum, had trained them, and their development manager was about to become certified
20:09:48 as a Cst certified scrum trader. So they had the smarts there.
20:09:54 But the what they had was some difficulty, and they had this.
20:09:59 They had this organization structure like this. They They had a product line.
20:10:05 They had multiple product lines, product line A and B, and each product line had its own component team.
20:10:11 And they had system-wide component team, and this seemed kind of reasonable as a structure, I mean.
20:10:17 Obviously you would prefer to have cross-functional teams, but they felt that they needed this specialization, and I wasn't judging it at the time again.
20:10:26 This was back in 2,007. so I didn't have the experience I have now on what we call the value creation structure.
20:10:33 But what they were concerned about was, if you take this like where I've got it, whatever that color is.
20:10:38 I guess peach and gray, and then a light green.
20:10:41 They had, like a whole product line team, and then some of the component team for that product line, and then a smaller amount for the system wide working together on a product.
20:10:48 So there were 3 teams, one full team and then parts of 2 other teams building an application.
20:10:53 This was the scenario, and the problem is, they described it to me as they were working on small items of value.
20:11:01 Okay, this is what we call minimum business increments. This is when you have an existing product, and you take the smallest releasing addition of functionality or value you want.
20:11:14 This is as opposed to a minimum vable product where you're creating a new product.
20:11:18 And you're more in discovery. See mvps are more about investing in discovering. if you have a product and are done very small.
20:11:26 Typically, one or 2 teams will do that. but an Mbi minimum business increment or in tameful.
20:11:32 They call it a move the it's the idea that this is the smallest releasing chunk of value that's worth delivering, based on also the value in the transaction cost of for the customer, and the business, and they
20:11:45 said they were doing this, which at that time very few people were doing it, but I believe them because they had very confident people.
20:11:51 Each team was doing scrum wall again, not very common, but they had Jeff in there, and they had a cst virtually there as well.
20:12:01 And by the definition of doing it well, I was just saying, well did they get what they were predicting?
20:12:05 So it sounded like they had a decent way of figuring their value, and they were, in fact, building it, as they suggested.
20:12:12 But they couldn't get value at the door quickly and I can remember talking about this where I was like what's going on here.
20:12:18 They're doing all the pieces I was looking at this piece and this piece and this piece, and this piece, and everything added up to being wonderful.
20:12:27 Yet it wasn't working so it was like okay what's going on.
20:12:31 So I remember the next day, I so we chatted about a day, and I remember the next day I said, look Look, I still don't get a clear idea of what's going on.
20:12:40 So let's do a little bit of value stream mapping, and we didn't do like real value stream. app But we looked at Step Step step.
20:12:47 So here's what was going on they they took this thing they weren't calling it an mbi.
20:12:52 But this functionality, small chunk of functionality work on small items.
20:12:57 This was releasing. Okay, this was like, if they built this, and what they did is they split it up into the 3 teams which made sense.
20:13:04 So I have the application team on the top. I have the component team for that application, and I have the component team for the whole organization, and they split it up, and then they gave the 3 teams there.
20:13:16 Part of it. So when all of this is done, and they figured it was about 3 sprints.
20:13:22 They were doing 2 weeks prints again, a good thing unheard of at that time for many people. But they were doing it well, and the Rationale was, People get the self-organized.
20:13:33 You've heard this before, Probably So they gave they each team had their own sprint backlogs, and what happened, of course, is the teams now decided to work on these by what worked from them.
20:13:47 So what you had was one team told something and other teams pulled something that was best for them.
20:13:53 But there, wasn't, this coordination, like if you notice this this each of the teams like I had them in order kind of what might be functional.
20:14:02 But by pulling in an uncoordinated way, although they were able to get this stuff done, they couldn't integrate.
20:14:09 So as we walked through the steps, we found Oh, your problem is integration that that we can't get that done.
20:14:15 So I pull Paul up. I mark that progress bar with red cause it was like, Yeah, I built it, but it's not integrated.
20:14:23 And what what we have! Zoom! the slides not advancing here.
20:14:29 We go so they couldn't integrate it and this is the bottleneck.
20:14:35 So it was clear this integration issue was what was slowing down.
20:14:39 So just general knowledge of theory constraints to look for the constraint that was the big issue.
20:14:45 And the issue here was also that we had delays in in what we were building. So we couldn't get feedback.
20:14:55 And if you've ever done software development, if you build something and integrate it immediately. it's faster than if you integrate it like in several weeks, because you don't remember also be clear this was 2,007 So although con
20:15:08 bond may have existed in a lot of flow may had existed.
20:15:11 I wasn't aware of it, I was still in this iterative incremental approach.
20:15:17 That scrum did. Okay, so i'm not thinking about doing this in a flow model at this stage. Maybe I should have. but I didn't know it. So I didn't there's another piece here.
20:15:27 I was violating a first principle of optimizing the whole.
20:15:30 In other words, remember, maybe that arrow ought to be pointing to here.
20:15:33 Remember that what they did is we gave each team their their sprint backlog, and then the team picked what was best for the team.
20:15:44 We didn't pick what's best for throughput of value so I notice all these I know as well we're we got a bottleneck.
20:15:51 This is causing ways. we're not looking at the whole Okay, So this was a problem, and I knew this was an issue.
20:16:00 So what happened is, of course they did. this again another 2 weeks, and they did it again, but we still couldn't integrate because it didn't line up the functionality.
20:16:09 We were pulling things out, so the delay of integration and increases something I call accumulated risk.
20:16:15 Okay, and what accumulated risk is I pull this this comes from one of my books, and i'm writing.
20:16:21 I'll refer to it at the end accumulated risk is the term we use for risk for unfinished items, and it's something that people don't talk a lot about and at least in agile I
20:16:33 Haven't heard this too much. But see right here if I have this releasing chunk of work, and I have a feature.
20:16:37 See if I build, if I build 2 stories out of this feature, but it's not done.
20:16:42 Well, i've r lowered the risk of these stories but I Haven't lowered the risk that I build the features right because I haven't completed them.
20:16:49 I can't get feedback on them whereas if I focus, and i'm trying to illustrate maybe about the same amount of work I can now get feedback on this get feedback on this I have less risk on the
20:17:00 right, because I at least know this feature is done right I still don't have the risk of the Mbi done because I haven't finished it.
20:17:07 Okay. So when we want to finish things, you know we've heard the phrase, you know, stop starting start finishing.
20:17:14 The question is that's not just stories that's have I finished my stories?
20:17:19 Have I finished my features? Have I finished my Mbis?
20:17:23 And this set of eyes is not very common in the agile space it would be.
20:17:27 If you are using lean it would be if you're using flow, it would be if using theory constraints because there's no value created until all things done.
20:17:35 But this is an important an important point that's often not quite looked at.
20:17:40 Okay, Okay, i'm gonna just continue on but it's it's I'm trying to point out that there were violating a lot of principles, and the way they were working.
20:17:49 So the fact that they were having troubles was not a surprise to me.
20:17:53 Oh, now I know what's going on they're locally doing great!
20:17:57 But they're not looking at the bigger picture they're not looking at how they coordinate So at the end of the 6 weeks 3 sprints. Where they done all this they have to reintegrate everything now integration
20:18:07 takes a long time. This is why they, couldn't release and of course they had commitments, because they planned this to be done in 6 weeks, and now they starting something else or supposed to start something else.
20:18:17 And they can't get it done so this was not a not a great thing.
20:18:22 Now, this is good that they can integrate. But this extra work here is extra work.
20:18:31 This is what I call induced or or twice and in knowledge or especially it and software.
20:18:38 There's a lot of monitor eliminate waste and all that.
20:18:41 But there's a problem with that mantra i've never quite liked the eliminate waste mantra, because you can't see waste and knowledge work the way.
20:18:48 You can see waste in a in in a manufacturing environment.
20:18:53 A bad bumper on a car falls off you can see it.
20:18:55 I've done in 10 studies, let me show you This is how developers who are writing bug free great code. Look okay.
20:19:00 Watch carefully. Okay, Now, i'm gonna show you What happens when they write books, do you see the difference there?
20:19:05 Isn't any difference that's a joke the point is you cannot see errors by watching the activity.
20:19:14 The way you can in a physical environment in a in a software development, and even product work where you're designing something.
20:19:20 That's why I use prototypes in physical design and products, and that's why you do tests and feedback in the virtual world.
20:19:28 So you've got to be careful so we what we can see are delays like we saw the delays in the integration set.
20:19:36 We can see that, and what we need to know. And this is now another principle.
20:19:41 Delays cause waste. You probably heard the phrase just in time from Lean.
20:19:46 That's where this comes from, or maybe it comes from somewhere else.
20:19:48 But that's where I learned it anyway. Okay, so consider this people talk about.
20:19:56 I've said this for decades if it's clear if we can't see it.
20:19:58 We can't manage it, but i'm gonna suggest if we can't see it.
20:20:02 We also can't consider it in other words what should we be doing well.
20:20:06 If you if you don't see it you Can't consider it.
20:20:11 This is a great call quote from Edgar Shine, which seems to be ignored by many in the community.
20:20:14 We do not think and talk about what we see. we see what we are able to think and talk about.
20:20:20 So if we're not thinking and talking about things we don't see them.
20:20:25 There's this kind of joke, this guy's looking for his keys under the land post.
20:20:29 And so yeah, I I I dropped them over there, but the lights better.
20:20:32 So when we have a framework, one of the problems with a framework is, we look at the framework.
20:20:37 We don't look outside the framework and there's all these things. we don't see, and because we don't see them.
20:20:43 We don't even consider them and we don't even talk about them, and that's why we don't see them.
20:20:48 So this is a serious problem with most frameworks is we do not see what we need to see.
20:20:55 And you know I love Peter sundays thing you know today's problem comes from yesterday's solution.
20:20:59 So i'm not saying scrum is bad i'm not saying scrum didn't make a difference in the industry.
20:21:03 I think it may be used positive difference in the industry for a while. but I think now, when we just look at it, there's a problem with just looking at it, and I love this from Arthur Schopenhauer and this Creates a
20:21:14 loop of understanding. I think the task is not so much to see what no one has seen yet.
20:21:21 But to think what nobody has thought yet about whatever everybody sees, because when you think about it in a different way, you see it differently, and you can do something different.
20:21:32 And this is really the key here. what we need to do.
20:21:33 Okay, So what we want? isn't instead of intentionally incomplete, Everybody says, Oh, yeah, it runs intentionally complete.
20:21:41 I'm like, Okay, we want it to be intelligently incomplete, just because you do something intentionally doesn't mean It's a good thing. And also, instead of a collection of components talking about safe here.
20:21:53 We want a system. we need to take a problem there's another piece to this, and this is demi i'm a big dumbing fan.
20:22:04 Yes, stemming was in manufacturing. but a lot of things, he says is very true, so experience teaches nothing.
20:22:09 In fact, there is no experience to record. without theory without theory there's no learning, and that is the downfall people copy examples, and then they wonder what's the trouble they look at examples, and without theory.
20:22:20 They don't win anything. So I wanna give you a little bit a guide of what theory I was using here.
20:22:26 And then we're going to go on for the solution So from first of all, Michael I have a quick question.
20:22:36 Would you mind to to respond to some of the question to you'd rather have all the questions parking lots.
20:22:44 Well, if the questions are about something i've said I would happy to respond to them.
20:22:48 But otherwise i'd rather wait to the end because I always get asked questions about something i'm about to talk about is very tight talk.
20:22:54 Sure. so let's let's parking up all the question thank you, Don Don Miller has a question Now let's parking lot.
20:23:02 That was for the last last minute thank you All sorry I I'm. i'm trying to get through. so I have 10 to 50 min of Q. and A. at the end.
20:23:12 I definitely am going to do. and i'm gonna cover some slides lightly as well, because some of them I put here for reference. So just know that as well. And then at the end we can do more questions So I want to be clear
20:23:20 what i'm trying to achieve is this business agility quick realization of value predictably sustainably and with high quality, and I don't mean exact estimation or things like that with the predictability.
20:23:30 But you should have some sense of what your value is. flow gives value across the value.
20:23:36 String. Lean tells us to not optimize locally Avoid delays. There's a lot more only actually Lena is more about education than anything else.
20:23:43 But this is what I was using here, and theory constraints is a lot more than looking for the constraint.
20:23:50 But I just gonna mention that these 3 work together. Okay, So I remember what I did.
20:23:55 I went to the whiteboard I literally showed them this slide.
20:23:58 Okay, This is an old slide i'd be built in in 2,005 or 2,000, and 6, and that objectives.
20:24:03 And we talk about a discovery in a delivery part as an input I don't worry about it. It looks a little waterfall, but we had feedback in it. The point.
20:24:11 Is, we do a certain amount of stuff that we get stuff ready to pull.
20:24:16 Then we get ready in a short time to to do our summit or development incremental deployment support and feedback, and we're all good.
20:24:23 But what was being ignored was this part right here?
20:24:29 Theater of development is really one thing. they just happened to have it be split up across 3 teams.
20:24:34 So what we wanted to do is use a shared backlog because that's really the value stream.
20:24:41 I wanted to think of it whole as a whole, and therefore we needed an integration train type thing that we would do it.
20:24:46 Now again, this is not what I would have come up with today, but 2,007.
20:24:51 This is where we were at 2,007. Okay, so what we can do this is just a side observation.
20:24:59 I hear people talk about running running experiments and agile and my experience is, if you don't have a solid theory, All you can do is run experiments, but it's a slow like way to learn i've never
20:25:09 been. I i've never liked the frisbee you gotta run a lot of experience.
20:25:13 I don't run many experiments because most of the time if i'm changing a process or a workflow.
20:25:18 I've got a solid theory and i'm pretty know it's gonna happen because i'm using a proven theory that I have a track record, and i'm using that but most agileists don't have that this i'm
20:25:28 proposing we do that again. This is what flux provided what my amplio now provides, and, like Steve, has tame flow theory, constraints, and some other things, and there are a lot of few others that are like that you
20:25:38 still have to validate what you do if it's a brand new approach.
20:25:43 But it's kind of interesting i've had more success predicting a new approach.
20:25:47 When I had a team that wanted to do something following theory.
20:25:50 Then when i'm there there's another the the one i'm working with people who are not quite motivated.
20:25:56 In other words, there's more uncertainty there is more uncertainty working with people.
20:25:59 Aren't motivated. Then there is with motivated people trying to do something new.
20:26:04 I've definitely seen this. Okay, so we could do one of 2 things we could try to coordinate the work, or we can pull the work at the same time.
20:26:13 So another words. What we did or what I suggested i'm gonna explain.
20:26:19 Oh, this isn't quite what we did this was the technique. I came up with That's the forerunner blast.
20:26:24 So we split the Mbi up into Oh, here's a slice of value here's a slice of value, and then what we did is we gave it to the teams not the whole thing just they do this: slice
20:26:36 and then build it another building in a coordinated fashion. Notice this.
20:26:41 Lets them also readjust within a 2 week period.
20:26:43 So what happened? We kept doing this piecemeal until it was done, and we got the Mbi, and as our progress bar shows, they integrated after every 2 weeks.
20:26:53 Now there are better ways to do this than what we did again.
20:26:56 This is the precursor of last. But this cut out a lot of waste.
20:27:01 Okay, and is very important. And I remember still one of the managers there said, Oh, you're just making a bigger team, And this was maybe the insight about that led to blast, because now these 3 teams working we're working
20:27:15 together. Notice: Yeah, it's more than 8 more than a pizza team, but that's the idea. they conceptually.
20:27:22 They or one team working. Okay. So that was that was a key piece.
20:27:27 So now we had 2 options. one option was to have shared back plugs.
20:27:32 That's what I actually suggested. but I also knew another option would be to reorganize the teams into cross-functional teams, and I Didn't suggest that per se because I knew if they saw why
20:27:43 that would be useful, and they would know if it was possible that's what they would do, and in fact, that is what they did.
20:27:48 But this technique was still. Oh, I got a new trick up my sleeve, if I need it.
20:27:54 And that was something I used a lot later, in other words, in additional engagements.
20:28:01 After this I use this technique of shared backlogs quite a lot.
20:28:04 In fact, this wasn't the first time I used the shared engagement.
20:28:08 One of our guys had come up with it like a year before that.
20:28:10 So the shared backlog was not a surprise or new to me.
20:28:13 Okay. So again they reorganized into cross-functional teams, and it was interesting about I don't know.
20:28:19 10 years. 8 years later I was at a the agile conference, and Jeff Sawutherland was presenting a a talk on how agile, rather scrum could work multi-user and it was very effective, and and about a third
20:28:33 of the way in September eleventh he's talking about this company.
20:28:39 In fact, he then named the company i'm not gonna name him but he named the company, said, Oh, well wait a moment.
20:28:43 This is weird, because yes, they were successful. but I want what he left out, which i'll admit was a little rotating up was that we use Link to get there.
20:28:51 Okay, i've been saying this from around this time this was the year that I started talking about saying Scrum could be thought of as a partial implementation of lean.
20:29:01 And if you thought about scrum that way you would do scrum better.
20:29:03 And he verified that a few years later, in this talk about how they were just doing Scrum Great just left up.
20:29:10 The fact that Lane helped them get there. So so this is one of my points.
20:29:14 Now I tell you what i'll take a couple of questions. now, because now's a this is a probably a good time.
20:29:22 So let me. yeah, I have I have some let me let me. I can handle it'll be faster.
20:29:29 Yeah, Don. So did the teams have visibility into each other backlocks to see where the Mbi work was happening?
20:29:33 Or was it only discovered at integration? Yes, they saw it but they weren't doing anything about it?
20:29:39 Okay, and and in fact, that's a good point the fact that they saw it.
20:29:43 They might have figured out, Hey, we should be working together.
20:29:45 They were not coordinating, was the point, even though that was available.
20:29:50 And And this is a key thing. We talk about self-organization. But self-organization is insufficient, because what they weren't doing. and this is one of the problems I have with some of the agile
20:30:05 talking about about you know we're we're autonomous, and we're self. please put the questions in the chat, because I wanna make sure I get questions that are this is the right time to answer them the problem
20:30:19 is when you or when you organize yourself in a way that is dependent on others.
20:30:26 But then you let people, You let people work independently because oh, it adds all we get to self-organize.
20:30:35 Then what happens is you do things that violate and cause extra work.
20:30:39 Okay, So we have to be very careful about this agile idea of cell organization.
20:30:45 Yes, you have to self-organize, but you have to organize in the context of the environment you're in.
20:30:52 So once we did this to that, a couple of slides. Sorry just to curse to me with this question.
20:30:59 They could build this the way they wanted to. This team could build.
20:31:02 Excuse me, This team could build this the way they wanted to.
20:31:05 This team could build this the way I wanted, Etc. but they were doing it in the context of working together.
20:31:10 And that's very important so we're not saying self-organization doesn't apply.
20:31:13 It's certainly applies, but it applies in the context of the whole. and that's ignored a lot of the times.
20:31:22 Okay, So let me look in the chat. I think there was another question.
20:31:30 Okay, So these kind of questions i'm gonna hold on the yeah And i'll. Yeah, we'll talk about those at the end.
20:31:38 But those are good questions. by the way the scram of scrums that's now mostly product owners.
20:31:44 We created that in net objectives, and Then we wrote it i'll be called it the product coordination team.
20:31:50 And after about 5 years we started seeing scrum doing it because we found that coordinating with individuals individual scrum masters isn't the very effective way.
20:31:59 There's another talk I have where I talk about or an article I have in my book, where I talk about you want visibility.
20:32:05 You want to coordinate. but then you really want alignment.
20:32:09 If you have alignment, imagine coordinating cats.
20:32:13 Tough job. Get a laser pointer they're aligned.
20:32:17 So they know what to go after that's what you want to be doing.
20:32:20 Okay, so i'm getting over this i've got a question real quick now. No, I I really have to hold blind on the talk, because I will not get Yeah, I take verbal questions put it in the chat sorry it's just this is a very tight
20:32:34 talk. I I want to introduce this notion of a pattern language.
20:32:39 I'm going to go through this very quickly is more to get you a taste of it.
20:32:42 It's not really needed in blast but we have this dilemma of There's this structure, and and we need structure frameworks.
20:32:51 Give us structure. This is good, but then they lock us into that structure that's not so good.
20:32:56 So a pattern is well known. it's a solution to recurring problem in a context out of patterns.
20:33:01 Oh, I that's supposed to say a pattern language I I don't know.
20:33:06 I missed that slide, so it should say a patterns language is a collection of these, or they're working together, and amplo is a pattern.
20:33:15 Language is actually a collection of capabilities that you can do, and and in those capabilities eat their different solutions for things.
20:33:24 So this provides us a different ways. it's also agnostic and enables us to applied to existing frameworks.
20:33:31 I this books online, i'll have references at the end and you'll be able to read more about amplo as a pattern language if you like, But you get the structure.
20:33:39 But the patterns give you solutions, but the language gives can be adapted.
20:33:44 So you can add things. You can take things out based on
20:33:47 You know your special, like, like different technologies, have different jargon.
20:33:53 Things like that kind of useful hundreds of patterns already exist.
20:33:54 Scrumpl. Scott, I don't know well over 100 or something.
20:33:57 There are lots of them, and there are other people have written patterns, so you can pull those in the pattern.
20:34:02 Language gives you the structure, the individual pieces can be barred. Discipline, ages, toolkit, can be used as a set of patterns that plug into it.
20:34:10 This idea that this idea that you you have to go between a framework or getting a fit for purpose solution means you have to reinvent something is only because people who are offering framework 7 figured out how to break that this is a
20:34:27 new technique. Okay, it's not really new it's it's written up, and we have training on it.
20:34:32 Maybe that's what's new but the thought process goes back decades, and and this is important.
20:34:38 The framework and and the framework is the framework.
20:34:45 Excuse me the pattern lines just gives you the structure of things.
20:34:49 Okay, So i'll answer a couple of questions in the chat before I go to the next slide.
20:34:53 So. Yes, they were siloed they weren't crossfunctional, though that's our mistake.
20:34:59 But they didn't see what to do. see this is the whole issue, that this is the whole issue that a lot of times people are doing the wrong thing. And this was a smart group.
20:35:07 This had a Jeff had been there. csd was there? that Jeff Hadn't tried coming in at this point where there were problems, but they were looking at.
20:35:16 How do we get this done? Okay. And again you could coordinate.
20:35:22 But coordination is tougher and i'm i'm thinking there's other ways to do this.
20:35:27 Okay, So let me go to this section. so this is basically a little bit about what amply I was trying to give you a sense of it.
20:35:34 I'm just gonna go through this quick because there's really not a lot new here.
20:35:38 The idea that you use the customer journey see here's something that most people don't even talk about the customer journey is how the customer interacts with the system and by adjusting the customer.
20:35:48 Journey. You can change the way that customers value stream is yeah we don't often talk about that. most people are so focused on.
20:35:56 How do I build the system? How do I build the system? to provide value instead of how do I have the customer interact with the system that gives them the value, stream and operational way of working?
20:36:10 Of course there's a business back like this is kind of basic stuff.
20:36:13 Okay, So i'm i'm you can this looks so very much like scrum, and it's intended to be that way. I want to use this diagram as an illustration of something you know you have a team.
20:36:24 You have a team here, and you're coordinated you got a backlog.
20:36:27 This should look pretty straightforward, just using this as a base for something.
20:36:31 When I get to blast. Okay, Now there's this issue Also I just want to throw this out as a quick comment, because people sometimes react to the pattern language.
20:36:44 Oh, my God, there's so much stuff you just said but If you think about it, it only has a few dozen It's 2 or 3 dozen capabilities that's at the team level kind of thing that is an
20:36:55 unlimited number of patterns an intelligence start can be boiled onto a few questions.
20:37:00 You know, How do we provide that provide a fit for purpose?
20:37:03 These questions are basically, Are we doing time? boxing or flow I didn't know Flow back, then?
20:37:07 Cross-functional teams applicable see they're not always applicable.
20:37:12 This is kind of the Miss Myth that agile should always be about cross-functional teams.
20:37:17 Well, they're good if you can have them that's great but ironically. my first scrum implementation was in a company where a larger group I wasn't working with couldn't get crossfunctional teams this was in
20:37:28 2,001 It wasn't applicable because they needed people to help with things so regardless of how to start you must be able to improve.
20:37:38 Now i'm going to go through. these slides extremely fast. I just want to tell you what the point of them is because they're not talked about enough in agile, and they're very important people talk about inspecting a adapt okay
20:37:49 Well, they're better alternatives, remember I talked about needing theory there's this thing dumbing talks about plan to study, adjust.
20:37:56 Some people call it plan. do check acts some people call it plan, do study, act, but it's basically this idea of I'll go through it.
20:38:04 You you plan you do something you're adjusting your models as you go.
20:38:07 There's what's called the observe oriented side act made by John Boyd.
20:38:13 You should include double loop learning which is kind of insane to me that we don't.
20:38:18 I'll go through each of these super fast mostly their reference for when you get the slide deck, if you want it so sure to Deming made this.
20:38:25 It's like plan. You reset your objectives you determine what your next actions are going to be.
20:38:30 You've verified against your model of understanding you do the work you verify?
20:38:37 Did I get what I expected. You study should I change my model so you're continuously cycling through these.
20:38:45 But you're always updating your theory of understanding okay again, just for reference.
20:38:51 I've got a picture of uda i'm not gonna talk about it personally who is kind of a little better.
20:38:57 I don't know better onward. uda he can have different time frames and the the short pdsa typically is done at schedule times.
20:39:06 Or one you need to do it I don't think One is inherently better than the other. but I do believe that it is easier to get into a quicker flow model of things.
20:39:17 Just here for reference. I do want to mention double loop learning well quickly.
20:39:22 And and i'm finally gonna get the blast in about 2 slides.
20:39:28 So single loop learning. This comes from chris ardress highly recommend you kind of study it.
20:39:33 It's really like If you said a thermist that I want it to be between 70 and 72.
20:39:38 The thermostat. will look am I between 70 and 7 Oh, great I am, or i'm not i'll change that's single loop learning.
20:39:43 But you wanna ask yourself and this is something that you can't in some frameworks, because if you change the scrub framework, you're not doing scrum anymore.
20:39:54 There's a lot of a lot of incentive to stay in the scrap model, because you probably got hired.
20:40:00 If you're a csm because you're sort of I scrum, master.
20:40:03 So saying, Oh, we're not gonna do scrum anymore.
20:40:05 May not follow may not flow management set to do scrub so There's a lot of psychological stuff here.
20:40:11 The idea. Double loop learning is, you question your means, and even your objective of getting it more.
20:40:16 The means you get there. Maybe you don't want to stay between 70 and 72.
20:40:19 Maybe when you're not home, you want to go something else.
20:40:23 Oh, this is where next nest came in the idea that you could check your devices here.
20:40:27 You're not at the house, maybe I change how I do my thermostat.
20:40:30 I don't keep it steady throughout the day this is also programmable thermodynamics.
20:40:35 So in double loop learning you change your mental model. you look at it.
20:40:41 You question it like maybe I shouldn't do that maybe I shouldn't do cross-functional things.
20:40:45 Maybe I shouldn't do I think I should do iterations, Of course you still have the objectives.
20:40:50 You have to do so. i'm not saying just change things drop things out of scrum, or anything like that.
20:40:56 But you might want to rethink if there's a better way to do it like in the questions.
20:40:59 Well, they were silos. They weren't looking together. yeah well, maybe should not have them be silos.
20:41:04 Maybe that way of working shouldn't change okay so here's what happened?
20:41:08 Give me a little history. So I did this in 2,007, and, to be candid, I didn't do anything with it until about 6 months ago I had some other value creation structures as we talked about it, which is where you look at How
20:41:21 teams organized, but i'll admit somebody one of my personals was saying.
20:41:27 I heard something about. Oh, some people are in there looking at nexus, so I decided to look at Nexus, and i'll tell you why I had never looked at nexus all these years, because nexus is an approach of
20:41:37 taking teams and combining them together and I know from Chris Alexander's designer approach.
20:41:45 That is not going to be as effective as looking at the whole and decomposing it as a system not decomposing it into pieces.
20:41:51 But looking at the relationships between things, this is just a better design approach, And what you have is like here, like what they did the comment about They were.
20:42:00 They worked they were siloed they weren't cross-functional.
20:42:04 See, they had said, Oh, I need components, so I need the application.
20:42:08 I need this, and they decompose it into separate pieces.
20:42:10 Instead of looking at the whole, How would I do the whole working together? When you take the pieces and put them together?
20:42:18 You usually get problems. So in my mind nexus was always a flawed design, and I don't bother spending much time on things that I know are violating.
20:42:27 Theory like. if I If there's, an investor that talks about a 100, you know, an energy producing machine that violates the laws of thermodynamics, i'll probably be dubious about it might read a paragraph
20:42:38 on it, and I did pop that with nexus, but not much.
20:42:42 I considered it a one off I came across nexus I was. You've created a lot of one offs, but people are looking for solutions.
20:42:49 Some of those one-offs are really good and they could become a pattern for the solution.
20:42:55 We're looking for in a particular context. but it's really is just an example of what flow lean and theory constraints can do so.
20:43:01 I don't think nexus I don't think blast Is this really big thing in a sense?
20:43:06 But it solves a problem, a lot. of people have and I at least want people to be aware that it's a simple pattern that that can.
20:43:14 Why we sign that simple, but it's not that complicated and it works. I've used it a lot of times. I just recently labeled it, and this is the amplitude teams I was talking about But I want to know let me show you the
20:43:26 blast picture looks very similar and part of the reason it's very similar, and I I didn't realize this until I was talking to Tom Gilbert a few weeks ago. by the way, time is one of the sharpest people in the industry you
20:43:37 should read anything he's got he's just really really competitive engineering is a great book, but he's very prolific.
20:43:45 Anyway, we talked about it, and we said we we realize what we're using, or what we call scale free methods.
20:43:52 In other words, only eliminating delays across the border at a team.
20:43:55 It's good thing to do now it may not do you any good if it's not where you're constrained is.
20:44:00 But you know so. But but if it is your constraint, how you eliminate them are actually fairly common.
20:44:05 So what I came up with was this idea. okay i'm gonna use the customer journey that's a new thing again.
20:44:11 Everything. i'm referring to here is on my website in those books I mentioned that i'll be doing have a business value backlog.
20:44:18 But now it's across the whole blast it's not just for a team last planning you're planning like you can see.
20:44:25 Remember we took that we took an mbi by the way This is obviously for bigger things, and we're 18 can do it.
20:44:31 This is for like where you need 2 to 9 teams or something I've used this technique that people have to consider that all of them are focused on this and the da workshop.
20:44:43 We call this the focus solution team. The idea is I have a group of people here that are working together.
20:44:48 But they're working on only one thing okay they they're working on one thing, so it's a group.
20:44:56 But it's more than just 18 because we're running to speed it along.
20:45:01 We have a near term back like this is also, by the way, in iterative incremental time box solution.
20:45:05 You can imagine it's easy to turn it into a flow system. If you want to just change the implementation of instead of planning 2 weeks playing on a flow model, pull the work, go That's a common theme.
20:45:18 You have a blast creation structure, you organize it Now this is also what's interesting.
20:45:21 This is the difference between it and nexus see I might have teams here, but I don't need full teams because I have flow at my hands.
20:45:30 I could use. so i could have a few people who are like needed by all the teams, and they use conan or something, or just the flow model.
20:45:38 If you're constraints whatever to coordinate it. so I don't have to just use this rigid approach.
20:45:45 But i'm looking at the whole notice the coordination now, is not these people individually talking to each other?
20:45:52 And yeah, maybe I have a scrum of scrubs of the product owners.
20:45:56 But the coordination is done in the polling mechanism. Looking at what I'm building from a holistic point of view, this is very critical.
20:46:03 I could do daily reviews actually I like almost well with this many people I'd probably have a daily review of at least the scrum masters.
20:46:10 There's some details that could vary continuous review and refinement of the backlog of course you're integrating at a it'd be nice to do ciCD see it's the key is we're not looking
20:46:23 at the individual teams working together. we're looking at the whole and how the pieces relate to each other.
20:46:29 It's a mind shift it's very important we review This is virtually the same things we had before, because I'm, looking at it from a value string perspective.
20:46:39 I'm not looking at it from a multiple pieces perspective coming up to each other.
20:46:46 Okay And again, I mentioned, you can have a lot of variations here.
20:46:50 Okay, So let me give you a couple of references and then i'll go to questions.
20:46:55 I've written writing a book. one thing I realized I mentioned the the Inflow Development Book effectively, and angel teams.
20:47:03 But this is another interesting thing. i've been realizing I realized this months ago, when I started this workshop, I have a workshop on this.
20:47:09 That's over time it takes like 4 to go through but only couple of hours a week, so that's how it's design.
20:47:15 But what I realize people are eyes asking, Well, how do I convey this?
20:47:18 How do I explain to that? Did those people so i'm writing a parallel book that explains it's agnostic?
20:47:25 It's not about employee it's just how do you talk to other people, to connect ideas, You know like what's the difference between experts?
20:47:32 How do you teach it in little pieces? what to say when people don't get it?
20:47:36 This is just some of the those are some of the chapters that are venturous.
20:47:40 I'll give you a minute to read that I'm then gonna put the reference slide up read that and I'm going to go through the questions.
20:47:47 We got questions now until the end gonna go through the chat to make sure.
20:47:52 I get a moment to read that, because to me this is what we need to do.
20:48:13 I think, adds all as it's practice now is a big piano, though, and we gotta go beyond it.
20:48:20 And i'm looking for people who wanna work with me on it this is some of what's available.
20:48:25 That's how you get a hold of being the if you I'm gonna give you the Pdf this the Pdf has link the amplitude community practices you can just go to our website.
20:48:35 Success engineering works and find all these. if you like certification.
20:48:39 The Da value stream consultant is a survey course through the Pmi.
20:48:42 We also have a 4 month follow-on to to help you with things improving safely and agile thinking if you're doing safe, there's a way to do that.
20:48:49 And they're more resources. Okay, So now, I'm going to go through questions and thanks for your patience.
20:48:55 So Rohini. asked, How do You create an environment that allows individuals to get out of their comfort. Zone, so they feel comfortable to voice their ideas.
20:49:06 Okay, that's a great question and it's not an answer. I have for everything.
20:49:10 But let me let me talk about this one of the things lean tells us, and one of the things that i'd say is violated by the scrum daily stand up here's what I did here's what i'm going to do
20:49:21 here's where i'm blocked, do you notice the conversation is about me, and if things aren't working well, somehow I kind of tend to think it's my fault, just because humans do that So what we want to do is stop
20:49:32 talking about people. people are important. But stop talking about talk about the work.
20:49:37 So the first thing you've got to do is shift from your focus on people to the focus on the work and the workflow, because if I just change this one thing here's what we're working and walk the board.
20:49:48 here's what we're working on here's what we're gonna do Here's what's blocked It's now a team and now i'm not so uncomfortable about things now there's a comment that
20:49:56 Ellie goldrad. The creative theory constraints control is more about a lack of understanding than it is about wanting to all.
20:50:08 See when you have people don't quite understand it's kind of hard, and it feels very uncomfortable.
20:50:12 So. Why, I've been talking so much, about these principles is, if you give people first principles that you can now have a conversation about.
20:50:21 So when I say a first principle I mean something That's that can be verified as something that exists it's not my opinion.
20:50:26 It's not your opinion right in fact our pinions don't really matter when you're thinking about this way.
20:50:31 What you have is, hey? I said, delays cause waste.
20:50:34 Is that true? shall be evidence? Can we have a conversation about that?
20:50:39 See we can decide and work together there's no guru here.
20:50:43 There's no I said it. I created it do it my way notice how that causes a lot of problems.
20:50:49 Yeah. So the scrumus crumbs, I think, I answered that renewal.
20:50:54 If you could reassure If I didn't yeah, you're welcome is a great question.
20:50:57 Oh, yeah, the teams are siloed. Yeah, Giles is brilliant.
20:51:02 Yeah. how I ask the question about the siloing and for the teams.
20:51:08 I'm surprised to hear that It was like that with Jeff Sutherland on board the creators.
20:51:12 Come. okay. So let me explain how that happened. Okay, cause I do have a little bit of an explanation.
20:51:16 So Jeff probably told him to do. crossfunctional teams.
20:51:19 Remember they had a Cst on board as well, so they knew they should be having cross-functional teams, and they had.
20:51:27 Just before I got there they had reorganized this way, and the reason they reorganize this way is, they didn't see how to do cross-functional teams.
20:51:36 See they did it because the problem was too big because they felt they needed component teams.
20:51:42 They felt they needed this. See, this is the big myth in scrum is that it tells you what to do, and if you do it, it will work.
20:51:49 What do you see how to do it in your situation so look I'll tell you how to make a 1 million dollars in the stock market by low. Sell high.
20:51:57 Don't violate that Now if you come back to me and you lose all your money.
20:52:01 I'll tell you you Didn't follow my advice so the point was this the fact that Jeff trained them?
20:52:07 Well, he wasn't there. he probably would have fixed it himself.
20:52:11 Okay? He probably has said Well, let's get to cross-functional teams, but he wasn't there, and they had competent people who were doing scrumble and they didn't see how to fix it that's
20:52:20 my point, and when we looked at the value stream and we looked at flow, then they say, Oh, I see how to solve it.
20:52:27 Then, once they saw how to solve it without cross functional teams, they saw that it was the integration that was the constraint.
20:52:33 They add see they didn't I walked in they didn't say we're having trouble integrating.
20:52:37 They just knew they were having trouble by mapping the value stream by showing them where their constraint was.
20:52:42 By showing them whether delays they understood their problem better and out of understanding their problem better.
20:52:49 They could do scrum better. that's my point makes sense yeah Government question for you real quick. if you could put it on the chat, because I've got I wanna honor people and put them in there But i'm
20:53:03 happy to. That was a good question. I think the next world would be Diana Su:
20:53:11 Oh, okay, yeah. So yeah, right. Is there some consistent favorite teams?
20:53:19 I think the consistent behavior with teams is if they don't understand why a framework works they they they do weird behavior, I mean, but most frameworks aren't based on first principle, safe does acknowledge a lot of first
20:53:30 principles of Don Ryerson. some of which by the way I would say they misinterpret, especially the one about variability and options.
20:53:39 But that's another issue yeah there's a lot of stuff.
20:53:44 So the question about Amy and edmonton's concept of teaming.
20:53:49 Now I don't know her work but there is a lot of i'm not saying this is all mechanistic.
20:53:54 I'm not saying that at all. I have a another slide somewhere.
20:53:59 I show a car driving backwards on the wrong side of the road.
20:54:01 I see a lot of people complain about how tub driving is because they're driving backwards on the wrong side of the road, and they're using the rear view mirror.
20:54:08 If you do things in an easier way, because it's more effective, it lowers the amount of motivation needed.
20:54:15 It helps collaboration. So yes, you still need things that get people to collaborate in team.
20:54:20 I'm not discounting that at all that's very important.
20:54:23 Okay you you can't motivate change you can only stop demotivating teams. people's motivation is there or not, and you might demotivate it.
20:54:32 You Can't instill that in people and this is a serious problem, because a lot of people aren't motivated regardless of the environment. they're not wanting to learn I think the reason frameworks are so popular
20:54:43 is, people would rather follow than think it's safer to follow the thing. I highly recommend reading the choice by Ellie Goldrat re talks about critical thinking.
20:54:56 What we have to recognize those quotes about the piano top and our solutions of yesterday.
20:55:01 I wrote a blog about this presentation this morning or the day before yesterday.
20:55:04 I think it was, and one of the things is when Agile came out.
20:55:10 It was picked up by early adopters and innovators and now it's spreading to late adopters and nobody's recognizing this, it's few. are we have different motivations with people Now we have to look at that okay
20:55:35 The the modeling I love value stream mapping, and I love modeling.
20:55:37 I would caution against using your own because who you're gonna show it to.
20:55:41 I mean if there's any value to show it to other people I'd i'd talk to other company other people.
20:55:46 But I love modeling. I was a big fan of the Uml.
20:55:52 Actually as long as a way of describing things I don't know that you need to create a new one.
20:55:56 I think value street mapping does really well, well, intelligently, and complete.
20:56:03 What a great question. So think about this if you don't see something you're not talking about.
20:56:10 Then how do you make it so? You can discover new things. Well see.
20:56:15 I suggest that when you design around a pattern language you don't need to talk about the thousands potentially of solutions, you only need to talk about the dozens of objectives, so you can talk about the objectives.
20:56:28 And then went. Oh, well, we we're not doing that Well, now, I can research as I need.
20:56:32 So you need a way to navigate what's possible where you're not kind of doing everything at once, So that's what I mean by intently and complete everybody's incomplete saying we're intentionally
20:56:42 incomplete is like everybody breeds. okay. great.
20:56:45 What the doesn't mean anything. how do you have all How do you look at your system, or you only describe a few things. But give you a way to navigate.
20:56:54 Okay, that's basically what ampileo does value stream mapping, lean flow and theory constraints work together, I think, to give you all that you don't need to need all 3 to learn everyone in detail. see my disagree might say of course, you
20:57:08 need their experience. just just kidding. But but you know there's this notion of if you get the basic ideas and then you start realizing some things are working.
20:57:17 You can go deeper. Yeah. domain model. that makes sense talking tomorrow.
20:57:25 Okay, Okay. So didn't somebody had a question was it Nicholas?
20:57:30 Did I get to your question? Yeah, can you for more about the intelligently complete? Yeah.
20:57:33 Very good question, constantly perplexed this to what is really missing from scrum.
20:57:42 And how do you inform new firm masters to be able to do that to perform well in their job when there's so many hundreds of agile looks out there that are trying to fill in those gaps that are essentially left
20:58:06 That you don't need iterations that you don't need cross-functional teams, but can use con bond that you need to take a wholeistic view instead of the individual pieces.
20:58:14 Those are all missing from Scott. Okay, Now, now just to point this out.
20:58:23 Do you realize, of course, that I barely scratched the surface of what's here?
20:58:27 Okay, but notice that i've talked about a lot of issues So the question is so.
20:58:34 This idea is you go, breath, not breath. everything I haven't touched every issue here.
20:58:40 If you if you can get at least an awareness of things you know there's like the things I know the things I don't know, and the things I don't know I don't know the question how does he do that
20:58:51 see one of my biggest problems in this industry when you stop and think about it.
20:58:55 And this is really astounding when you stop and think about it.
20:58:59 Scram and safe are really predominant and they're controlled by 3 people in terms of the content that does not seem very collaborative to me.
20:59:09 Now there are a lot of other methods out there and one of the things I'm looking at.
20:59:15 So I started the amplitude community of practice, which is free. By the way, as I meet every week every Other Week.
20:59:20 Excuse me on thursdays and i'm gonna have some guest people in and we're actually trying to lay those out in a way to navigate so intelligently incomplete means How do I give a core that Then we
20:59:31 can expand out. Okay, I gotta go to some of these others.
20:59:33 Now the creation of alignment. see the value of a minimum business increment.
20:59:38 All the teams. Does this is what we're trying to build an epics way too big can't line around a feature because it's not functional enough to release yet you need to focus on what is the intended outcome of
20:59:51 what you're building, and everybody aligns it's like having a magnet along compasses instead of each one doing individually.
21:00:01 So from David. How do you think that angela's mindset can help organization communities to manage the complexities of current chaotic management. Okay?
21:00:09 Well, I don't think agile can do that I don't think agile works everywhere.
21:00:15 Angel manifesto, as great as it is it's still more of an iterative.
21:00:18 It based functionality. I think you need lean flow theory constraints.
21:00:21 That's the way of doing it because those are based on first principles.
21:00:27 Those are systems. Thinking approaches and the complexities, so i'm not a big fan of complex complex thinking, and all that it's not necessary systems.
21:00:37 Thinking includes complexity in knowledge or i'm talking about knowledge working.
21:00:41 I'm not talking about nuclear reactors that's a totally different thing.
21:00:44 But in knowledge work we can avoid the chaotic chaotic events that are present.
21:00:50 Little thing makes a big difference through feedback. i've got an article on my book again.
21:00:54 I'd look through those the table of contents of the 2 books.
21:00:58 It answers that really well I don't like frameworks or hybrids of framework.
21:01:04 So I like going to first principles. and I think that's what the pattern line of amplitude does Steve's team flow is is, is I?
21:01:14 It takes a different approach. but it's based on the same concept of coming from what works, what's theoretically proven, and Steve feel free to put anything in the chat you want i'm a big fan of your
21:01:26 work. and i've forgiven you for that black eye in the cop.
21:01:31 I'm just kidding. We had this fight out about computer constraints where I was saying one thing he was saying something else.
21:01:36 So we publicly had a at a meeting about it, and he won.
21:01:41 So I I showed up with the black guy the next day.
21:01:44 Just I've made it up but he's very smart very good.
21:01:48 Yeah, yeah, I mean totally So yeah, Okay. Good. good. like.
21:01:52 I say, steve's give a url of your stuff it's really good stuff.
21:01:55 I'm looking for people who can do this because I want to shift the bit, so to speak.
21:02:01 So people realize that frameworks are not the only answer and they're not even a good answer.
21:02:05 Okay, I think I got everybody's questions if I didn't if I didn't put it in again, because I think I'm done again.
21:02:14 I will give this pdf i'll i'll fix one error. I saw i'll give this Pdf. with live links to it, and you could go look at this stuff and and give me feedback I
21:02:27 I I got it I mean I got excited here. I put a lot of stuff in here, and maybe I put too much about the front, which I actually think is more important than about blast.
21:02:39 But there is a chapter on blast and there's a case study that you could read.
21:02:45 And yeah, these these 2 links here, the case study and blast those are online.
21:02:49 You could get more information. So I guess i'm done hopefully this is Job will tell me.
21:02:55 Give me feedback always like feedback that's good question I maybe was was late, cause I was trying to find the link you're looking for contribution.
21:03:05 Can you talk a little bit about about what your your you mentioned something about you're looking for people to collaborate with on your stuff?
21:03:15 Can you talk 2 things here? I I I think this is 3 levels of things.
21:03:20 So I've started the ample oil community practice where we meet every other Thursday.
21:03:24 The next meeting is not this week, but next week, cause we had one last week.
21:03:28 So in the community practice. I guess i'm kind of doing 3 things.
21:03:32 One is It's just a place to learn about a lot of the stuff, you know.
21:03:36 We do mirror boards, we collaborate we learn together. so it's about learning together, and that's more of casting a broad net for people to learn this.
21:03:43 The other thing is, some of the people in the amplo community practice are interested in collaborating on improving some of the ideas I have some of the ideas are valid.
21:03:56 They work, but the a lot to elaborate them is gonna take a lot of time.
21:03:58 So i'm about to set up some exercises on mirror boards where, Yeah, thanks on mural boards where people can actually accept on some of the things.
21:04:11 For example, the way amplio works you can either take it as do these things, and you'll get you'll get better results, or these challenges can be solved by doing these things, and it's the same content.
21:04:24 But it's a different way of explaining it so for those people who are willing to. i'm setting up some exercises so they can elaborate that.
21:04:33 So people have different ways to learn based on what their problems are now the third thing i'm doing is obviously I like Steve's work.
21:04:39 Well, I've been finding some other people's work I like the I like agile, too.
21:04:44 I forget Diana larson's work with I forget their name now.
21:04:47 The agile fluency I think it's they're doing great way.
21:04:52 So i'm looking for people who are doing not what i'm doing well.
21:04:56 I mean the great if somebody's doing what i'm doing But but i'm looking for people who have different approaches that are breaking the framework problem better, I think we have to break the certification trap that we're
21:05:08 in now, where people are getting searched and they're not learning how to think so.
21:05:11 I'm looking at some of the other people or creating their own methods and kind of creating community on that is just started.
21:05:20 But I expect that to expand. So if you just want to learn if you want to do exercises to build some better material, or, if you want, you actually know if somebody who's building a new technique, wants to get involved that's what
21:05:30 i'm looking at thank you alright Well, excellent for presentation. I've really enjoyed it, and we'll definitely have to go back again and watch it under those things.
21:05:44 If we could all go to Gallery mode.
21:05:49 I think David wants to take a picture. Yes, Yes, yes, yes, i'd like to take everyone's picture, and I just shared the note on on our thank you, everyone I just shared them and a note on the chat
21:06:06 please help us help us to help our community and each other, and for again Thank you so much.
21:06:15 App I know anybody else for being here with us.
21:06:21 Help us to get. But there, what what we're doing We try to save our community, and last, but not the least hijack and scale value project management is a community of mostly project program for for your managers
21:06:39 technical and functional. We have folks mostly volunteer helping them mostly. all of them.
21:06:44 Volunteer helping us, some of them in between Job. If you have any opening, please share with us, share with me, share with us, and looking forward to seeing your next month, we have great.